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Seeking answers: Carroll Gardens still rattled after Monday violence in busy park

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Carroll Gardeners are still rattled days after a mysterious early evening shooting rang out on the heels of a big brawl in Carroll Park.

The knock-down, drag-out fight erupted between groups of teens at around 3:30 pm on Monday, just hours before several gunshots sounded, leaving neighbors of the popular park on edge and seeking answers.

“It is really alarming,” said Carroll Street mom Virginie Smith, who often takes her three children to the park after they get out of school at PS 58 across the street and wants to know what happened.

Smith said that she was in the park with her kids on Monday when the brawl suddenly started by the basketball courts, sending a 17-year-old boy to the hospital, according to police.

“We heard screams and everyone was running around,” Smith said, adding that ambulances, fire trucks, and police cars arrived soon after at the park bounded by President and Carroll streets and Court and Smith streets.

Little information has emerged about the fight or the shooting, but the incidents sparked speculation among residents, including a rumor, trumpeted by neighborhood blog Pardon Me for Asking, that the throw-down was a gang rumble. Investigation of the gunshots has so far yielded only two bullet casings found at the corner of Court and Carroll streets and no one was injured by the shooting, cops said.

No arrests have been made in either the shooting or the brawl, which are both still under investigation, and it is too early to say what motivated the incidents or whether they were connected, police said.

Some neighbors said it is not the first time teens have thrown punches in the park, but that the ring of gunshots has them in shock.

“I can’t believe it was a gunshot,” said Claire Nitze, who heard the blasts from inside her Carroll Street home and initially thought they were fireworks.

“It makes me worried about the neighborhood,” she said, pointing out that a man allegedly pistol-whipped and tried to abduct a woman in July on a nearby block.

Cops at the 76th Precinct said that since Monday’s incidents they have ramped up police presence in the park and that officers will continue to patrol the playground on foot and by car during busy hours and until the late afternoon.

“The park will be safe,” a police source said. “It will be covered.”

Reach reporter Natalie Musumeci at nmusumeci@cnglocal.com or by calling (718) 260-4505. Follow her at twitter.com/souleddout.
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Reader Feedback

Karen (Mulcahey) Evesson from used to be Windsor Terrace says:
What a shame, you can't be in the park in the afternoon with your children for fear of gang wars. I grew up feeling safe, why can't these little ones? Because no one has respect for life any more. It used to be fighting with your fist but now they use guns and knives... What a frigging shame!!
Sept. 20, 2013, 12:05 pm
anonymous from Brooklyn says:
Over the years there have been all kinds of
shootings in Carroll Gardens.
Nothing said and nothing done.
Sept. 20, 2013, 12:12 pm
Joe Black from Kensington says:
i'm sure it was just a misunderstanding between fellow aspiring basketball players. nothing to worry about.
Sept. 20, 2013, 6 pm
Teenager from Brooklyn says:
It really is a gang "beef"/"war" between Red Hook hoodlums and Gowanus hoodlums.
Sept. 20, 2013, 8:31 pm
jay from nyc says:
if these bozos want to fight then they should join the army and do something worthwhile with that aggression rather than just being a useless criminal loser
Sept. 20, 2013, 10:12 pm
OG carroll gardens says:
The yuppies have moved in and taken over, and hordes of ghetto kids come to the park around 3pm everyday, in the old days the rowdiness and disrespect would never be tolerated, and if someone used a gun in that park with little kids there they would have had to take the first flight out of ny.

Now with no more stop and frisk and the wonderful leftist anti cop yuppies expecting the nypd to protect them when they basically bash it all the time is laughable.

When you get your mayor di blasio maybe you can give all these "youth" a hug, see how that works out for you.

Just wait till the summer, when you get mugged by these wonderful kids and there are shootings in that park everyday. Don't expect demoralized nypd to come when you need them.

So unbelievably clueless and totally book smart with no real world common sense of any type.
Sept. 21, 2013, 4:11 am
JimG from Carroll Gardens says:
To OG - I couldn't agree more.
Sept. 21, 2013, 4:34 am
old time brookluyn from slope says:
so true og and Jim you always manage to show what a bigot you are.
Sept. 21, 2013, 9:32 am
Prospect Heights Resident from Prospect Heights says:
This is shameful and exactly why I leave most public spaces before the high schools and junior high schools let out for the day. That is when the foolishness erupts. I have nearly been robbed for my Kindle (they must have thought it was an iPad) and jumped while at Manhattan Beach with my family after staying in the area too late. Again, these places are peaceful during school hours, but not after. What a sad state of affairs.
Sept. 21, 2013, 11:43 am
o3 from bk says:
the obvious solution is for EVERYONE to be armed so everyone could shoot in every direction admist the chaos.

personally i prefer semi-auto shotguns for that good ol street-sweeper carnage ))
Sept. 21, 2013, 2:15 pm
Reader from Brooklyn says:
"Don't expect demoralized nypd to come when you need them."

If they're too "demoralized" to do the job they shouldn't collect the paycheck.
Sept. 21, 2013, 4:12 pm
Og says:
Listen reader, cops are human beings, with paychecks, and mortgages and kids, no one will sacrifice that for your ungrateful cop hating butt. Sorry, treat the cops like they are less than you and then when something happens you call them?....sorry Charlie life don't work like that...

Don't be a hypocrite anyway, live up to your liberal ideals, you don't need the police, invite these "youth" over to your house for a hug and some gluten free cupcakes.

Mayor di blasio got some good ideas, ...enjoy the ride!
Sept. 21, 2013, 5:59 pm
Reader from Brooklyn says:
"Sorry, treat the cops like they are less than you and then when something happens you call them?....sorry Charlie life don't work like that..."

You think that's an honorable and professional attitude? You think that attitude evokes sympathy?
You've got another think coming.
If a responder won't respond, he-she shouldn't take the public-paid paycheck.
Sept. 21, 2013, 10:42 pm
Og says:
Whatever you think, your little liberal feathers get ruffled but it's the truth. You look down on cops, you and your friends in the people's republic of carroll gardens. All I ever hear from the "new residents" is how the cops are racist, dumb, and don't do thier job.

Such a class and elitist divide your kind creates with the older residents here, snarky, snobby attitudes abound. Please don't tell me about community or neighbors. None of you are, you say hello when you want to and abruptly are friendly when it's suits your purpose.

The police are middle class people from nyc, they feel that attitude from you daily. I see it, you look at them with utter disdain. Until you need them of course then it's " call those police people" with a high browsed huff like you are calling some servant to do your lawn.

You get the treatment you give out to people, whether it be the cop on the street or the plumber or the old lady that lives on your street long before you.

You killed this area, sure it's more expensive, but it's hollow, the prices that you have paid for these houses will easily collapse when the crime rate spikes under dblasio, and it will.

Next time you see a cop, thank him for his service, no money you pay him is enough for him to risk his life for you. And next time you organize something in the red square gatherings you do in carroll park why don't you do one for the survivors of fallen police officers and thier families. Now if I saw that I'd really be surprised that maybe you types have some humanity after all. Prove me wrong.....that's all I ask.
Sept. 21, 2013, 11:44 pm
Reader from Brooklyn says:
"You get the treatment you give out to people, whether it be the cop on the street or the plumber or the old lady that lives on your street long before you."

The plumber and the old lady also don't take professional oaths that apply regardless of how appreciated they feel.

That's one thing that separates professionals from nonprofessionals. It's a big mistake to imply, as you did, that "demoralized" police might choose not to respond when called.

Sept. 22, 2013, 12:11 am
OG says:
Of course police will respond, they just aren't going to be proactive. Why wouldn't they not respond when you call 911?...they earn thier living by what they do and I admire them for that.

It's the subtle things that will stop, because they are scared of getting sued by these new laws and new layers of oversight that basically handcuff them.

Maybe in my haste in writing this I made it too rash, of course the cops will come when you call, take a report, say everything is ok, but they are people, don't ever forget that, they keep the lights on in their house by the check they earn. And if they told you at your job that you will still get paid by doing less and not taking chances with your career by doing less what would you do?...of course we will get a certain percentage that will go out and still do thier job, and be sacrificed to the liberal gods by endless career killing lawsuits . But if you are a regular cop just looking to get by and earn a check what the motivation to do more when by doing more you risk all?....the end of stop and frisk and the tremendous oversight coming on has put a cold chill on the average cop. He will be less likely to take that extra chance or step to stop somone he feels is up to no good. He will be too petrified of a lawsuit or to be put up on you tube.

So don't worry, they, will come when you call 911, that was never the point, and I apologize in my writing that I hastily wrote that. No whats worse is they will become noting more than report writers, coming after the fact, when it's all over, no better than a security guard force....

But I really don't understand why any liberal lives this duplicitous life. On one hand you bash the nypd to no end, you demonize it as if it was the cause of all violence. Be truthful to your ideals, don't call the police, why not give these youth a hug?, or cookies?, perhaps they are not socially engaged?...this is your duty as a high minded socially responsible flag waver of liberalism to do.

Oaths? , duty?...of course people will do thier jobs, some will still care, but the spear has been broken, and the battle lost before it was over, the streets are safe again but we have given the keys to the barbarians at the gates and we have disarmed the praetorian guard. Only mayhem can result. History has shown this over and over again. But of course we are doomed to repeat mistakes again because we live a short time on this earth and we never ever truly learn. We see only what we want to fit our view...
Sept. 22, 2013, 2:19 am
Betty says:
OG is right - those black and latino kids can't control themselves. Unless threatened with violence, they will commit more violence. There should probably just be a ban on them altogether. Or a special pen they could be kept in?
Sept. 22, 2013, 5:11 am
Melinda Morris from Brooklyn Heights says:
Let's not blame the gunman, surely it's the fault of law-abiding professionals who live in the neighborhood.
Sept. 22, 2013, 7:13 am
Scott from Park Slope says:
Oh, I dunno, OG, Park Slope probably has double the number of "leftist anti cop yuppies" that Carroll Gardens has, and we enjoy an excellent police response, thank you very much. A couple weeks ago a couple of the remnant hoodlums on the block lit off a firecracker (sounded like an m80) at 10pm at night, and less than 5 minutes later the place was swarming with NYPD, FDNY, and Ambulances. Sound carries up well from the street and I've heard many fights averted because they know the scores of families living on the block will call the cops at the drop of a hat. We all know who the troublemakers are, and they know we know who they are and that they'll be the first ones picked up if anything happens. So I think the strong family values, strong communities, and deep involvement with city government at all levels that "leftist yuppies" bring to the table trumps anything else for crime suppression.
Sept. 22, 2013, 9:11 am
the truth from your screen says:
yes but to the old Italian, nothin beats a good beatin with a baseball bat!

what they forget to tell you is that these charming law enforcin Italians also went after Jews, Irish, Asian (they had a different name for them) and anyone else who may have crossed their stoop. but let's wear rose colored glasses and remember them good ol' days.

anyone who says different is a liar.
Sept. 22, 2013, 10:26 am
Aaron from Brooklyn Heights says:
OG wrote X X X the spear has been broken, and the battle lost before it was over ... we have given the keys to the barbarians at the gates and we have disarmed the praetorian guard. X X X

and some of us either are writing while in our cups or are trying for a pompous bloviation award.
Sept. 22, 2013, 10:31 am
Man from South Slope says:
As an older transplant who has been living here for 15 years, I take issue with the idea that the recent newcomers are the problem and don't participate in the community. As Scott described, we know who the problem people are on my block, and in fact it's mostly the long time residents who enable those individuals (low level drug dealers, junkies, assorted gang kids) to fester in the neighborhood, by turning a blind eye to their illegal activities or even handing cash to the resident junkies to make themselves feel better about themselves.
Sept. 22, 2013, 10:57 am
OG says:
Hey thank you for the nomination for the bloviation award.

Let me write to the point, I'm Hispanic, I have never wrote or given this a racial flavor, and neither should you....these kids whether white, green or purple are the end result of no parenting and no moral compass.

Using a gun around little kids probably ranks up there in my mind of heinous crimes. It's something you should not ever even think of.

Now the writer that says she gets "excellent police response" misses the point too, maybe that's my fault again for my earlier scribblings .

The point is that of course the cops will come when you dial 911, but being proactive is another thing.

The chill is in the air for them to do more, stop the action before it happens, that's true police work. Anyone can come after the fact and take a report. If you measure that a police work or dedication then you truly have no idea. Don't you watch law and order with your leftist cabal late at night?
Sept. 22, 2013, 11:58 am
Aaron from Brooklyn Heights says:
OG, if you "have never wrote or given this a racial flavor" then who are the "hordes of ghetto kids" you mentioned? Or were you referring to some little-known WASP or Icelandic ghetto?
Sept. 22, 2013, 12:22 pm
OG says:
Why do you take "ghetto" to be racial?...oh that knee jerk ultra sensative uber liberal radar of looking for anything that could be mildly referred to as a racial label.

Well thankfully I'm Hispanic, and I know with you uber leftists a " minority" member can throw these labels around.

So I did, and when I refer to " ghetto" kids it's not in the sense that your scared to utter anything remotely considerd or can be possibly racial to what we threw around for years,

Ghetto is people who are uneducated, un cultured and don't want or seek to better themselves, it isn't a racial term. It's a mindset that its ok to shoot somone in a crowded schoolyard or shoot a dad with his little son in the stroller right there, and the child gets shot instead.

Thankfully I'm not tied down to your guilt, I grew up in a Spanish speaking household in the bad old 70s in New York City. I know what ghetto is, it can be white skinned or black or brown, but the attitude and culture is there.
Sept. 22, 2013, 1:05 pm
Aaron from Brooklyn Heights says:
X X X OG says: Why do you take "ghetto" to be racial? X X X

Because I'm a native NYer with an over-70 IQ, I know the codes and I'm used to "I'm not being *racial*" wordgames from dissemblers like you.

Heaving "liberal" insults won't get you anywhere.
Sept. 22, 2013, 1:49 pm
Aaron from Brooklyn Heights says:
OG says X X X Thankfully I'm not tied down to your guilt, X X X

On the other hand you apparently have some kind of complex or don't have much of a life, since you've spent Sat-Sun the writing three-act librettos here.
Sept. 22, 2013, 1:57 pm
Bkmanhatposeur from Brokeland says:
Bottom line. If you have more cops on foot patrol canvassing the connected areas from Gowanus to Redhook that will be form of deterrence.
Second the cops & perhaps with Federal Law enforcement should focus on illegal gun running. That's will har further impact than stop & frisk.
Sept. 22, 2013, 2:09 pm
passin' thru from past thru says:
Bkmanhatposeur is right, cut to the chase.
Sept. 22, 2013, 2:35 pm
K. from ArKady says:
When you're a Jet, you're a Jet, all the way!
From your first cigarette, to your last dying day!

@OG : Back in the day, the Jets ran a clean ship. Then those f*cking Sharks came here from PR and look what happened to the nabe...
Sept. 22, 2013, 3:03 pm
passin' thru from past thru says:
K. from ArKady says: Back in the day, the Jets ran a clean ship. Then those f*cking Sharks came here from PR and look what happened to the nabe...
* * *
Yeah, the (imaginary) Polack Jets were clean gangbangers, effin Sharks were, ew, dirty cause they were PR (so what else, right?)

That RL gangturf disappeared when they built damnedliberal Lincoln Center, starrng hands-down brilliance from those w. Euro-Latino-Africa-Asian roots.

Ha!

Today, 3:03 pm
Sept. 22, 2013, 3:39 pm
Murray from Carroll says:
OG, are you NYPD, ret NYPD or PD spouse-family?
Sorry but I've seen these "impassioned" debates before, allovertheplace.
Sept. 22, 2013, 4:50 pm
K. from ArKady says:
Hey, are you dissing the Jets?!?! Now I'll have to get the boys together and do a tightly choreographed dance number to a dynamic soundtrack with urban elements on your a$$.
Sept. 22, 2013, 6:14 pm
passin' thru from past thru says:
K-Arkady, if you want to stay real you gotta include the "West Side Story" Jets gang on their old turf.

So it'd be a bunch of Polish-American gangbangers doing Balanchine's "Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto #3" around the Lincoln Center fountain.

But fuhgettaboutit, sincr your dynamically choreographed-soundtracked urban dance in CG sounds helluva lot better.
Sept. 22, 2013, 11:12 pm
JimG from Carroll Gardens says:
To old time brookluyn from slope: You agree with OG's statement and yet call me a bigot. Huh? You need to find a new wacky weed dealer. This recent batch has you more confused than usual.
Sept. 23, 2013, 9:09 am
Brklynmind from Downtown says:
Get used to it all - regardless of what NYPD does (and OG has it right in terms of them 'leaning forward') the hoodlums now think that they can carry - so they will - and more shootings and murders will result. You can thank Judge Shiendlen for the coming mayhem - only to get worse under DeBlasio.
t was great while it lasted!
Sept. 23, 2013, 10:56 am
Scott from Park Slope says:
Evidence, rather than knee-jerk political hate, points to crime going down in many of these neighborhoods since they've attracted so many professionals who are starting families. Turns out keeping your house and sidewalk clean and showing up to community board meetings and precinct meetings and participating in the neighborhood's civic life has a much better crime-suppression effect than a bunch of neo-tribal turf wars and baseball bat reprisals. Who'da thunk?
Sept. 23, 2013, 5:28 pm
jj from c. hill says:
Lets see here...no more stop & frisk, bloomberg leaving & de blasio coming soon..the 90s are coming back guard ur grill no joke!!
Sept. 23, 2013, 11:12 pm
jj from c. hill says:
Lets see here...no more stop & frisk, bloomberg leaving & de blasio coming soon..the 90s are coming back guard ur grill no joke!!
Sept. 23, 2013, 11:12 pm
jj from c. hill says:
Look at the bright side, at least the apt. prices are gonna eventually drop around the CG/RH/Gowanus area because like i've said in other posts, the thugs are gonna retake those same neighborhoods they got pushed out of, mark my word.
Sept. 23, 2013, 11:19 pm
Richard Grayson from Williamsburg says:
Reading these comments is really depressing.
Sept. 24, 2013, 10 am
Og says:
I'm going to call Vegas and get the over and under on how soon crime will go up, I say one year after comrade Sandinista do blasio gets elected.

Thugs will be emboldened, punch outs in public areas have gone on and still do in Chicago with the usual liberal media cover up. So get ready for it here.

There at so many hard working, decent level headed tax paying people in NYC. I wish they would come out and vote and prevent this ultra leftist clueless di blasio from getting elected.

Lhota lacks the flash and coolness of a son with a fro. But this man is who I want behind the wheel of the greatest city on earth. Di blasio is a person that will bring many unworkable ideas and theories that the left think can actually be paracticed in real life. But don't forget people, this ultra leftist democrats of NYC almost ruined it, NYC was written off as a crime plagued hole until Giuliani started the ball rolling to clean it up.

I have lived my whole life here, and I think the problem with many 30something yuppies is they were too young to remember the crime and dirt and anarchy of the old NYC. It was completely out of control. No way even half of you would stay in NYC if it went south like the old days. And that's my greatest fear, this clueless dumb leftists will implement their hair brained theories and they won't work and just leave as the city burns.

Look into Lhota, don't write him off because of labels, this is a steady hand that will keep NYC safe. I don't need di blasio closing charter schools and having Charles Barron over for tea.
Sept. 25, 2013, 4:59 pm
Pete from Winds Terr. says:
Stop and Frisk was about getting the compstat numbers up with not enough cops-thanks Bloomtard.
Horrible to watch transit cops summon hapless 20
something white guys off the train- just before it pulls out, so there were no witnesses, like you know, the Soviet Union.
But that has nothing to do with this gangster wannabe stuff.
I agree with those above who say we need more
uniforms on patrol daily.
If the Police Union agrees to more years than 20
and out, we might be able to afford them.
By the way, FDR was a 'liberal'. He brought the country out of a terrible depression, reformed the financial system,set up Social Security, and led us to a win over the Nazis. He wasn't soft on criminals at
all.
Sept. 28, 2013, 7:43 pm
Og says:
Pete i respect your opinion but, the type of liberal we have in NYC isn't like any other in America save San Francisco. They are rabidly anti-cop. They don't by nature support, trust or believe the police. This leads to a mistrust on both sides that leaves the hapless citizens in peril. I have said for years that we should start a police reserve here like the LAPD has, these are volunteers that go through the same academy the regulars do but just don't get paid. It's basically the Nyc auxiliary police program we have now but better standards and a application process that is exactly the same as a regular officer.

That would save the city millions, but unions don't want it and now with a anti cop administration coming in I really don't know how anyone can't see crime not going up.

FDR wasn't these liberals, that was a different breed, ...
Sept. 28, 2013, 7:49 pm

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